Odd behaviour from HR92s

[Richard]

Some TRV's just aren't fully compatible by design. They need to be exactly like this one for near perfect operation - https://theevohomeshop.co.uk/content/9- ... patibility

Pegler Yorkshire Terrier 3 - it's on the list!!! Are they not compatible really?

I've been requested by Evohome support to swap out problem valves for Valencias (valves which are otherwise in perfect working order), but a user on this thread has detailed the same low demand issues with the Valencias.

Having watched your video, the Terriers measure up fine. The valve height is correct, thread detail correct. The issue is not with the fully open position (or the pin being depressed when screwing down the HR92 seat) - the issue is with the over-compression when the closed position is determined.

I think the real question is, what is the change in the firmware that will address the low demand issue (and is that an admission that there is a low demand issue, as I've detailed at the start of this thread)?

The compression of the rubber on the TRV's valve seat is beyond Resideo's specification. These valves vary massively in specification, especially as they get older.

RF comms around the system, is very different to signal strength. The operation of the evohome system is just a digital pulse. If you want to put up some photos of your installation, maybe I can help further?

[Eniodi]

Some TRV's just aren't fully compatible by design. They need to be exactly like this one for near perfect operation - https://theevohomeshop.co.uk/content/9- ... patibility

Pegler Yorkshire Terrier 3 - it's on the list!!! Are they not compatible really?

I've been requested by Evohome support to swap out problem valves for Valencias (valves which are otherwise in perfect working order), but a user on this thread has detailed the same low demand issues with the Valencias.

Having watched your video, the Terriers measure up fine. The valve height is correct, thread detail correct. The issue is not with the fully open position (or the pin being depressed when screwing down the HR92 seat) - the issue is with the over-compression when the closed position is determined.

I think the real question is, what is the change in the firmware that will address the low demand issue (and is that an admission that there is a low demand issue, as I've detailed at the start of this thread)?

The compression of the rubber on the TRV's valve seat is beyond Resideo's specification. These valves vary massively in specification, especially as they get older.

RF comms around the system, is very different to signal strength. The operation of the evohome system is just a digital pulse. If you want to put up some photos of your installation, maybe I can help further?

Are you talking about the rubber in the valve internals? That's what I'm referring to. Is it likely that the Terrier has a much more compressible rubber seal than the Valencia, to the point that it requires a whole turn before the valve opens enough to allow flow? (which you test by removing the HR92 when it is fully closed, and seeing how many turns of the black wheel on the HR92 seat are required to open the valve).

What pictures would you want to see? I went through all this for Evohome support - sent loads of photos, and it didn't really corroborate anything more than the details I gave them.

[Richard]

The Evohome HCC80R also doesn't have wiring for a zone valve to isolate the UFH pipe circuit, which the ATAG boiler engineer thought was ludicrous. Water is always flowing through the UFH mixer and shorting the heating system to the radiators. According to Honeywell/Evohome this is the way to do it - according to literally everyone else, there should be a zone valve to shut off the underfloor circuit.

Yes it does. It uses the same switched live terminal on the HCC80R that the pump does (hence there is a connection point on each side of the terminal). Who gave you this advice? Did you buy this evohome system off us? It doesn't sound like you did from what your saying.

Are you talking about the rubber in the valve internals? That's what I'm referring to. Is it likely that the Terrier has a much more compressible rubber seal than the Valencia, to the point that it requires a whole turn before the valve opens enough to allow flow? (which you test by removing the HR92 when it is fully closed, and seeing how many turns of the black wheel on the HR92 seat are required to open the valve).

Yes, yes and quite possibly yes.

What pictures would you want to see? I went through all this for Evohome support - sent loads of photos, and it didn't really corroborate anything more than the details I gave them.

We are not the manufacturer of the evohome product BTW... This is our own shop forum we run for our own customers with a general support section bolted on. I am happy to help when I have the time. Wide angle shots ofall the installed evohome items would be a good start.

[Eniodi]

The Evohome HCC80R also doesn't have wiring for a zone valve to isolate the UFH pipe circuit, which the ATAG boiler engineer thought was ludicrous. Water is always flowing through the UFH mixer and shorting the heating system to the radiators. According to Honeywell/Evohome this is the way to do it - according to literally everyone else, there should be a zone valve to shut off the underfloor circuit.

Yes it does. It uses the same switched live terminal on the HCC80R that the pump does (hence there is a connection point on each side of the terminal). Who gave you this advice? Did you buy this evohome system off us? It doesn't sound like you did from what your saying.

Are you talking about the rubber in the valve internals? That's what I'm referring to. Is it likely that the Terrier has a much more compressible rubber seal than the Valencia, to the point that it requires a whole turn before the valve opens enough to allow flow? (which you test by removing the HR92 when it is fully closed, and seeing how many turns of the black wheel on the HR92 seat are required to open the valve).

Yes, yes and quite possibly yes.

What pictures would you want to see? I went through all this for Evohome support - sent loads of photos, and it didn't really corroborate anything more than the details I gave them.

We are not the manufacturer of the evohome product BTW... This is our own shop forum we run for our own customers with a general support section bolted on. I am happy to help when I have the time. Wide angle shots ofall the installed evohome items would be a good start.

I did buy all the Evohome parts from you. I spoke to technical support for Honeywell who advised me that I should not use a zone valve as the HCC80R UFH controller doesn't operate one. I enquired specifically about it as the JohnGuest UFH controller I was considering as an alternative setup has a specific terminal and diagram showing wiring for the zone valve in its documentation. When looking at the installation documentation for the HCC80R, there is no mention of operating a zone value for the UFH circuit, and so I specifically made an enquiry about it. I even asked the question twice to the tech support person.

According to manual, the Neutral connector on the block serves the incoming power cable on one side, and the pump relay on the other, so both sides are used. There are also only two cutouts for wires below the block - one for the power supply, the other for the pump relay cable. There is not space for a third. If, on the other hand the cable is to be branched at an external terminal to run both the 2 port zone valve and the UFH pump, that would make sense. The HCC80R manual makes no mention of this possibility.

[Richard]

I did buy all the Evohome parts from you. I spoke to technical support for Honeywell who advised me that I should not use a zone valve as the HCC80R UFH controller doesn't operate one. I enquired specifically about it as the JohnGuest UFH controller I was considering as an alternative setup has a specific terminal and diagram showing wiring for the zone valve in its documentation. When looking at the installation documentation for the HCC80R, there is no mention of operating a zone value for the UFH circuit, and so I specifically made an enquiry about it. I even asked the question twice to the tech support person.

Cool. If Resideo tech support knew as much as I do about the evohome product and heating system design, I wouldn't have a shop.

Get me some images and we can go from there. Have a good weekend.

[Eniodi]

I did buy all the Evohome parts from you. I spoke to technical support for Honeywell who advised me that I should not use a zone valve as the HCC80R UFH controller doesn't operate one. I enquired specifically about it as the JohnGuest UFH controller I was considering as an alternative setup has a specific terminal and diagram showing wiring for the zone valve in its documentation. When looking at the installation documentation for the HCC80R, there is no mention of operating a zone value for the UFH circuit, and so I specifically made an enquiry about it. I even asked the question twice to the tech support person.

Cool. If Resideo tech support knew as much as I do about the evohome product and heating system design, I wouldn't have a shop.

Get me some images and we can go from there. Have a good weekend.

Sure. Will do. I just tried calling Resideo to grill them again on this after getting hold of the latest manuals, but tech support apparently don't do afternoons.

[Richard]

Sure. Will do. I just tried calling Resideo to grill them again on this after getting hold of the latest manuals, but tech support apparently don't do afternoons.

Well I have just done 8am till 5:10pm, but I am signing off for the weekend now.

[Eniodi]

Sure. Will do. I just tried calling Resideo to grill them again on this after getting hold of the latest manuals, but tech support apparently don't do afternoons.

Well I have just done 8am till 5:10pm, but I am signing off for the weekend now.

Morning. Well, I finally got hold of "technical support" (if you can call them that) at Resideo. I asked specifically about how you'd wire a zone valve to the HCC80R. The lady I spoke too got very condescending and interrupted me half way through what I was saying. She said, "I've heard this before - you don't need to use a zone valve because the HCC80R acts as one". What on earth does that mean?? I explained that all manifolds installations recommend use of a zone valve when combining rads on the same boiler so you aren't short circuiting the heating loop when the UFH isn't required. She then said, "well, if you think you really need to do that then wire the brown to the pump live, grey to permanent live and orange to the live of the pump". I then asked why the manual doesn't mention this, and she just cut me off.

I don't have much confidence in this explanation. Isn't there a neutral blue on the zone valve as well? Can you give me a reliable wiring plan. Thanks. I've got a JohnGuest manifold, pre-fitted with a standard Gundfoss UPM3 Auto pump. I'm using the JohnGuest NC actuators wired into the HCC80R which seem to work fine. So I just need to wire in a Honeywell 2-port vale in between the HCC80r and the pump.

I'll get photos to you later if you still want them..?

[Eniodi]

Actually, I think I've figured it out, but I'll just check.

Wire to the HCC80R -
Brown, switched Live
Grey, permanent Live (other side of block to incoming Live)
Blue, neutral
Green/yellow, earth

Orange - connect to pump switch live

Pump Neutral and Earth then just need splicing into zone valve cable (obviously, inside an external box, along with the orange connection)

[Richard]

Sure. Will do. I just tried calling Resideo to grill them again on this after getting hold of the latest manuals, but tech support apparently don't do afternoons.

Well I have just done 8am till 5:10pm, but I am signing off for the weekend now.

Morning. Well, I finally got hold of "technical support" (if you can call them that) at Resideo. I asked specifically about how you'd wire a zone valve to the HCC80R. The lady I spoke too got very condescending and interrupted me half way through what I was saying. She said, "I've heard this before - you don't need to use a zone valve because the HCC80R acts as one". What on earth does that mean?? I explained that all manifolds installations recommend use of a zone valve when combining rads on the same boiler so you aren't short circuiting the heating loop when the UFH isn't required. She then said, "well, if you think you really need to do that then wire the brown to the pump live, grey to permanent live and orange to the live of the pump". I then asked why the manual doesn't mention this, and she just cut me off.

I don't have much confidence in this explanation. Isn't there a neutral blue on the zone valve as well? Can you give me a reliable wiring plan. Thanks. I've got a JohnGuest manifold, pre-fitted with a standard Gundfoss UPM3 Auto pump. I'm using the JohnGuest NC actuators wired into the HCC80R which seem to work fine. So I just need to wire in a Honeywell 2-port vale in between the HCC80r and the pump.

I'll get photos to you later if you still want them..?

I'm not sure what quite is going on at Resideo, but this is how you wire a zone valve to the HCC80R. It's not too difficult and a competent heating installer would be able to work this out.

hcc80r-wiring-diagram-for-motorised-zone-valve copy.jpg (219.09 KiB) Viewed 428 times