The Efficient Home Forum

Jb1577 wrote:I will reconfigure everything from scratch but this will be my fourth time.
I will use a new evotouch that I got from the installer.
I will comment on the results and if I have been successful.
Thanks and best regards


Lo volveré a configurar todo desde el principio pero esta será la cuarta vez que lo hago.
Usaré un nuevo evotouch que he conseguido del instalador.
Ya comentaré los resultados y si he tenido éxito.
Gracias y un saludo

Good luck. Like I said, get one zone working first so you are happy and then add the next zone, test this, then next zone...

What confuses me the most is that the system works correctly if I remove it from the stable zone, let me explain. If I put the economic plan or off, the r8810 relay stops demanding the temperature of the boiler and it turns off, if I demand much more temperature than the real one in some area or in several the boiler turns on and modulates correctly. The problem is only visible when the whole system is in the ideal or idle situation, all the zones have the real temperature coinciding with the set point and the boiler does not stop starting and stopping because the relay continues to demand temperature, but I don't know why zone if all mark 0%.
Summary. When the set points are far from the real temperature, both above and below the system works correctly, as soon as everything approaches the programmed, chaos begins.


Lo que más confundido me tiene es que el sistema funciona correctamente si le saco de la zona estable, me explico. Si pongo el plan económico o apagado el relé r8810 deja de demandar temperatura a la caldera y está se apaga, si demando mucha más temperatura de la real en alguna zona o en varias la caldera se enciende y modula correctamente. El problema solo es visible cuando todo el sistema está como en situación ideal o de reposo, todas las zonas tienen la temperatura real coincidiendo con la consigna y la caldera no para de arrancar y parar porque el relé sigue demandando temperatura, pero no sé para qué zona si todas marcan 0%.
Resumen. Cuando los set point están alejados de la temperatura real, tanto por arriba como por abajo el sistema trabaja correctamente, en cuanto todo se acerca a lo programado empieza el caos.

I will try to reprogram everything from the beginning, but the truth is that the behavior of the system is very confusing.
It is as if when no zone demands temperature, the r8810 asks the boiler for just a little bit of heat, instead of that 0% for 1%, which makes it turn on and go into a loop.
I will tell you


Trataré de volver a programar todo desde el inicio, pero la verdad es que el comportamiento del sistema es muy confuso.
Es como si cuando ninguna zona demanda temperatura el r8810 le pidiese a la caldera solo un poquito de calor, en vez de ese 0% un 1%, lo cual hace que ya se encienda y entra en bucle.
Os iré contando

I have placed a new evotouch and I have configured a single zone, as basic as possible.
With a single zone it does exactly the same, it modulates until the zone's set point and the real temperature are equal, then it marks 0% on the thermostat and on the radiator (although the hr92 has a P16 valve position, I understand that that is residual).
The fact is that the boiler starts with the minimum water temperature and the heating demand icon never goes off.
Could it be the r8810 that cannot really command the shutdown? The fact is that when the set point was lowered a lot if it was turned off, that is, that command has it.


He colocado un nuevo evotouch y he configurado una sola zona, lo más básico posible.
Con una sola zona hace exactamente lo mismo, modula hasta que el set point de la zona y la temperatura real se igualan, entoces marca 0% en el termostato y en el radiador (aunque el hr92 tenga de posición de válvula P16 que entiendo que eso es residual).
El caso es que la caldera se enciende con la temperatura mínima de agua y el icono de demanda de calefacción no se apaga nunca.
Podía ser el r8810 que no consiga realmente mandar el apagado?, El caso es que cuando bajó mucho el set point si se apaga, osea que ese comando lo tiene.

Jb1577 wrote:I have placed a new evotouch and I have configured a single zone, as basic as possible.
With a single zone it does exactly the same, it modulates until the zone's set point and the real temperature are equal, then it marks 0% on the thermostat and on the radiator (although the hr92 has a P16 valve position, I understand that that is residual).
The fact is that the boiler starts with the minimum water temperature and the heating demand icon never goes off.
Could it be the r8810 that cannot really command the shutdown? The fact is that when the set point was lowered a lot if it was turned off, that is, that command has it.


He colocado un nuevo evotouch y he configurado una sola zona, lo más básico posible.
Con una sola zona hace exactamente lo mismo, modula hasta que el set point de la zona y la temperatura real se igualan, entoces marca 0% en el termostato y en el radiador (aunque el hr92 tenga de posición de válvula P16 que entiendo que eso es residual).
El caso es que la caldera se enciende con la temperatura mínima de agua y el icono de demanda de calefacción no se apaga nunca.
Podía ser el r8810 que no consiga realmente mandar el apagado?, El caso es que cuando bajó mucho el set point si se apaga, osea que ese comando lo tiene.

The aim of an OpenTherm system is to maintain the temperature of the property setpoint. OpenTherm is not an 'on/off' demand signal like traditional systems or the BDR91. When the set temperature is achieved the system will back the flow temp and demand signal off, but it won't stop the boiler demand signal unless the room significantly overshoots the set temperature. The evohome system is assuming there is still heat loss occurring in the system, so needs to put 'some' energy in to account for the heat loss.

This operating logic seems very reasonable to me, I understand that when all the zones mark 0%, some hr92 is still a little open (for example, valve position 15) so that it waits for the temperature of that zone to rise somewhat before stopping. the entire boiler. This adding 12 zones makes the problem worse.
I think I can solve part of this problem by increasing the boiler pump shutdown delay and raising the minimum demand temperature so that it sends heat to the circuit a little longer than required, but the problem is that with hr92 to 15 it is exactly As if they were closed, I will never be able to increase the room temperature a little if I cannot get water into the radiator, the hr92 (parameter 6) stroke does the same at 0 as at 1.
How can I make the radiator open more if the flow is not enough? I understand that a system as sophisticated as evohome should take that into account and, if it is not enough, have the hr92 open more to get that "extra" heat or that "temperature loss compensation" you are looking for when you do not shut down the boiler completely.

I think we are really near of the solucion

Jb1577 wrote:This operating logic seems very reasonable to me, I understand that when all the zones mark 0%, some hr92 is still a little open (for example, valve position 15) so that it waits for the temperature of that zone to rise somewhat before stopping. the entire boiler. This adding 12 zones makes the problem worse.
I think I can solve part of this problem by increasing the boiler pump shutdown delay and raising the minimum demand temperature so that it sends heat to the circuit a little longer than required, but the problem is that with hr92 to 15 it is exactly As if they were closed, I will never be able to increase the room temperature a little if I cannot get water into the radiator, the hr92 (parameter 6) stroke does the same at 0 as at 1.
How can I make the radiator open more if the flow is not enough? I understand that a system as sophisticated as evohome should take that into account and, if it is not enough, have the hr92 open more to get that "extra" heat or that "temperature loss compensation" you are looking for when you do not shut down the boiler completely.

I think we are really near of the solucion

Lower the flow temperature max setpoint of the boiler to 55C and the HR92 valve position will stay wider for longer. All the pump associated timers on the boiler need to be extended to 10+ minutes. OT min temp needs to be set as low as it can be.

We specialise in Intergas boilers too - https://theintergasshop.co.uk/

I have tried many combinations in the parameters but not the one that you recommend, I definitely get on with it.
The minimum OT setting is 10 degrees (parameter E 10-60).
I would like to know what to put in parameter E. OT reaction (0 = ignore OT when <than E; 1 = limit OT when <than E; 2 = OT on / off)
I understand that the best option is 0, that does not pay attention to the heat demand if it asks for less than 10 degrees.
Thank you


He probado muchas combinaciones en la parámetros pero no la que usted me recomienda, sin duda me pongo con ello.
El ajuste mínimo del OT es de 10 grados (parámetro E 10-60).
Me gustaría saber qué poner en el parámetro E. Reacción de OT (0= ignorar OT cuando < que E ; 1= limitar OT cuando < que E ; 2= OT encendido / apagado )
Entiendo que la mejor opción es la 0, que no haga caso a la demanda de calor si le pide menos de 10 grados.
Gracias

Jb1577 wrote:I have tried many combinations in the parameters but not the one that you recommend, I definitely get on with it.
The minimum OT setting is 10 degrees (parameter E 10-60).
I would like to know what to put in parameter E. OT reaction (0 = ignore OT when <than E; 1 = limit OT when <than E; 2 = OT on / off)
I understand that the best option is 0, that does not pay attention to the heat demand if it asks for less than 10 degrees.
Thank you


He probado muchas combinaciones en la parámetros pero no la que usted me recomienda, sin duda me pongo con ello.
El ajuste mínimo del OT es de 10 grados (parámetro E 10-60).
Me gustaría saber qué poner en el parámetro E. Reacción de OT (0= ignorar OT cuando < que E ; 1= limitar OT cuando < que E ; 2= OT encendido / apagado )
Entiendo que la mejor opción es la 0, que no haga caso a la demanda de calor si le pide menos de 10 grados.
Gracias

E. - 1 is the best parameter

Once I have better understood each parameter of the boiler thanks to your indications I have managed to find the problem, but not the solution.
The problem, as you said, is that although the zone has reached the setpoint temperature and marks 0% in the evotouch, it wants to heat the zone a little more (something similar to a hysteresis) and that is why it continues to demand that the boiler to minimum, in turn leaves the radiator somewhat open through hr92, which indicates in its parameter number 10 (valve position) that the valve is not completely closed.
The problem is that since this parameter (for example P31) is so low, the water cannot circulate, it is as if it were completely closed, that is why it never turns off, because it does not get that "extra heat".
Once this is discovered (being very clear with a single programmed zone, the evotouch as the only thermostat and a single hr92) I see that I have no way to control that opening percentage, the only thing there is is parameter 6 to define the stroke of the valve, but in both positions (0 or 1) does the same, and its minimum opening when the zone is already at the set point does not allow water to pass through.
My valve is a MNG 30x1.5 compatible with the honeywell hr92. There is no adapter, is there any other way to regulate the piston travel?
Thank you


Una vez que he entendido mejor cada parámetro de la caldera gracias a vuestras indicaciones he conseguido encontrar el problema, pero no la solución.
El problema, tal y como decíais, es que aunque la zona haya alcanzado la temperatura de consigna y marca 0% en el evotouch, quiere calentar un poco más la zona (algo parecido a una histeresis) y por eso sigue demandando el encendido de la caldera al mínimo, a su vez deja el radiador algo abierto a través del hr92, que marca en su parámetro número 10 (posición de la válvula) que la válvula no está completamente cerrada.
El problema es que al ser ese parámetro (por ejemplo P31) tan bajo, el agua no puede circular, es como si estuviese completamente cerrado, por eso nunca se apaga, porque no consigue ese "calor extra".
Una vez descubierto esto (al estar muy claro con una sola zona programada, el evotouch como termostato único y un solo hr92) veo que no tengo forma de controlar ese porcentaje de apertura, lo único que hay es el parámetro 6 para definir la carrera de la válvula, pero en ambas posiciones (0 o 1) hace lo mismo, y el su apertura mínima cuando ya está la zona en el set point no deja pasar agua.
Mi valvula es una MNG 30x1,5 compatible con el hr92 de honeywell son ningún adaptador, ¿hay alguna otra forma de regular el recorrido del émbolo?.
Gracias